Endurance State of Mind
Endurance State of Mind is your go-to podcast for all things endurance—from the long miles to the mental grind. Hosted by Zach Vogt and Anthony Herrington, two everyday athletes with an obsession for pushing limits, this show dives into the training, mindset, and lifestyle of endurance sports. Each episode brings candid conversations, local race highlights (especially in Mississippi), interviews with inspiring guests, and plenty of laughs along the way. Whether you’re chasing a PR or just trying to survive your next long run, this podcast will keep you motivated, informed, and connected to the endurance community.
Endurance State of Mind
Episode 54: Trusting the Pivot and Betting on Yourself with Grayson Taylor
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Anthony is currently somewhere in Europe pretending he’s on a “business trip” (we all know it’s mostly espresso and views), so Zach is holding down the fort and keeping Endurance State of Mind rolling.
In this episode, Zach sits down with Grayson Taylor to talk about what it looks like to trust your instincts and bet on yourself. After building an impressive high school running career at Oak Grove and setting school records in the two mile and 5K, Grayson seemed to have a clear path in front of him. Instead, he made the bold decision to step away from running and fully commit to cycling.
Grayson opens up about burnout, outside criticism, and the pressure that comes with walking away from something you are known for. He shares how that transition happened, what gave him confidence in the decision, and how quickly things began to click once he got on the bike.
The conversation also dives into his rapid early success in cycling, what he is learning about the sport, and why trusting the pivot has already started to pay off. This episode is about more than running and cycling. It is about having the courage to choose your own path even when other people don’t understand it.
https://www.instagram.com/endurance_stateofmind?igsh=cjBnanNobHhhYXNu
Early morning, late night. Every story, every finish, no highest.
SPEAKER_00State of mind.
SPEAKER_02Welcome back to Endurance State of Mind. Today's episode is about making bold decisions and having the confidence to stand by it, even when not everyone understands. Our next guest was a standout and track and cross country at Oak Grove High School, setting and still holding the school record in the 2 mile and 5K. He also holds the Strava Crown on the Big Butt 7.5 mile segment at Choctaw Trails. Threw that in there for our Mutt's audience. All those running stats dead and with a clear path to continue running at the next level, he instead made a pivot away from running and fully committed to cycling. That decision didn't come quietly. It came with its doubts, criticisms, and plenty of outside opinions. But in just a short time, he's already making noise in this new arena by winning his first road race and finishing second in his first crit, all while under the weather, I might add. Today we're diving into that transition, what it takes to walk away from one path to chase another, how to block out the noise, and what it looks like to trust your instincts even when others question it. We're also going to dive into his exciting potential in cycling and what he has planned in the future. So, ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, please help me welcome our next guest, an emerging force on the bike with the watts to prove it, Grayson Taylor. Grayson, welcome, buddy. How are you?
SPEAKER_03Heck yeah, that's an awesome intro. I'm good. How about you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm doing good. We were we were talking a little bit before we hit record. You are someone I have long since wanted to have on this podcast before we got started with the podcast. And I think your transitions kind of occurred over the length of us having this podcast, and I can't really think of a better time to talk to you, really. It just kind of naturally landed at the right spot.
SPEAKER_04So it did for sure.
SPEAKER_02I'm really excited to talk to you. I think early days I was gonna talk to you about your transitioning as a standout high school runner into college, and now you're the pivot, I think, is gonna make this interview even more fun for me, man.
SPEAKER_03So tables have turned.
SPEAKER_02The tables have turned. So I I I think you'll be a name that many of our audience will know. Um some of our audience will know if they recognized you, if they knew your if they saw your face, and we're gonna connect the dots with your story. Like I had to throw that Big Butts uh crown segment holder in there for some of our very proud of that one, to be honest. You should be. I went back and looked at it before. Um, I think that was 2024. You guys were on a relay team, and you and Josh were going back and forth 6'10 pace on that seven and a half mile loop. Um, so that still stands as of today.
SPEAKER_03So I don't think I've ever been more dead after like that was probably one of the hardest my heart rate was 191, I think, for 45 minutes.
SPEAKER_02People, our audience know big butts. It was not cold, it's a trail, and he's ripping at that. That was and did I misremember? Were you back out there the next year doing the 50k too solo?
SPEAKER_03I did. So that was kind of well, I don't want to hint too much in the future, but yes, I did uh the 50k was diabolical. I didn't have no training.
SPEAKER_02So well, that's funny. Well, we'll get into all these fun stuff. I've got a lot of questions for you. I can't wait to dive into your transition. Um, but for our audience, tell our audience a little bit about who you are, how you got into running, and um we'll kind of take it from there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I'm Grayson, if you don't know me. Um I was originally a military kid actually before high school, so kind of lived all the way all over the country. Actually lived in Japan for a little while. Um you know, as a skinny kid, there's not a whole crazy bunch of sports to get into, you know, obviously couldn't really play football, wasn't tall enough for basketball. So up until high school I was trying to figure out basically what to get into. Um, and my parents had always told me I needed to be a runner. So I guess I finally listened to him um when we moved here and I started high school. And then that's basically the start of it. Uh it's spiraled a lot. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02So so that's interesting. You had no you didn't do any dabbling in running or any endurance sport prior to moving to Oak Grove in high school.
SPEAKER_03Not really, aside from I did one soccer tryout where we had to run a mile, like time trial basically. And I remember like blowing it out of the water, smoking everyone, and I still didn't make the team, and I was like furious. So I probably should have seen that as like a sign, but in sixth grade, you don't really want to like run for fun. So yeah, I probably wish I would have picked up on that sooner.
SPEAKER_02That's funny. You might have been so frustrated as a sixth grader that you didn't make the team that the like the the elephant in the room of the talent of this, you know, your running talent just kind of went under. That's funny, Grayson. Yeah. Um so so step us through like your high school, I'll say track and field and cross-country career. You get started into it, and um kind of what happens, and our guests will know. I can't remember what episode, but I've always associated you with Matthew McGuire. I came to know both of you through our your coach and my good friend Josh, and you guys became on my radar early. So I had an inside peek into y'all's development through Coach Josh, and um I mean you paced me like clockwork at Labor Your Legs one time, and Josh gave me the your reputation of you just being this clockwork metronome, and he spoke really highly, and I know it was a joy for him to watch both of y'all develop because y'all are off awesome athletes to work with. So I guess step me start out in like freshman year for getting into running and kind of give me the walk, give our audience the walk.
SPEAKER_03Oh man, well, freshman year was it was something. I mean, I feel like I had shin splints probably every other day. I was running really slow, and I hated it. Um so I can't even remember my PRs, but probably freshman year PR was just a hair under 21 in the 5K. And then I guess it was that track season that uh I met Matthew, and uh he was the uh intimidating new guy on the team. So I saw he had crushed this half marathon. I think he it was like an hour 30 something. Anyways, low seven-minute pace. And I was like, oh my gosh, like this guy is crazy. And uh so, anyways, we kinda we didn't really talk that much at first, but then we kind of started realizing we were pretty similar in paces. So I vividly remember um track season of my freshman year. Um Matthew is a sophomore, and I know he remembers this too. Um, but we were both in the 1600s, I think this was at Hattiesburg High School, and uh basically this meet was competing for the spot to move on to regionals. Um so we both run a mile, and we finished within I guess it's either a hundredth or a thousandth of a second of each other. I guess it's a hundredth of a second. Um, so it was like five nineteen point seven two and five nineteen point seven three. And I I beat him by that much, and that was what got me to regionals, and I remember that, and we both just were like, what just happened? So that was crazy. I've never finished that close to someone in a race. It was wild.
SPEAKER_02That's so funny. I I f I find it funny. You you didn't remember your your freshman 5k, you know, roundabout it, but you remembered beating Matthew in that race to make it to the next step by the hundredth. I hope he's gonna be able to do that. I've got to ask the obvious I gotta ask the obvious question. Did Matthew not advance because of that, or did y'all both get to advance?
SPEAKER_03No, it was actually I feel bad, but like, yes, it was actually me that advanced to regionals.
SPEAKER_02Wow, I can't wait to get a response out of Matthew when this episode comes out on the social media or something. That's awesome. Well, I think he's okay. He you created a monster, maybe it started that day, so I think he might thank you for that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's paid off.
SPEAKER_02You should take credit for it. Okay, so um that's really cool to know where you came in and your freshman 5K time to where I know it got down to. I specifically didn't call that out in your intro, but it's quite impressive. It's this Oak Grove 5K school record. Take us from that experience up to maybe sophomore junior senior year and kind of how you progressed.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, okay, so let me think. Sophomore year. It was really the the summer before that going into cross-country where I really like was like, okay, I need to start taking this seriously, like I can be better than just you know, just being okay. So, you know, Josh had me training real hard, and I think I came in at the opener at Mississippi College and ran 1720 something. Um so already like four minutes off my PR from the last year. Which I knew I was capable of that just from like time trials and stuff in the summer, but that was when people were like, Whoa, how'd you take off four minutes in like not that long a time? So yeah, and then honestly, I don't remember sophomore track season that well at all. Um but you know, continued progression there. I don't think I made it to state that track season. Um sophomore year I really just was kind of building up confidence. That's when we had all the the OGs on the team, Bennett, Gavin, Jaden, all those guys. Um, so that was just fun to kind of look up to them. And then, you know, eventually junior year came around and I was like, alright, time to step up. I gotta be top dog now. Um which it was kind of sad, like not really having as many people to train with anymore. But at the same time, it was cool to kind of like you know, flip that switch, and then now you're kind of mentoring people as opposed to learning. Um but yeah, junior cross-country season was pretty solid. I think I got close to breaking 16, but I don't think I quite got it. Um I did finish fifth overall at 7A state. Um and then junior track season, a little bit of a disappointment. I kinda ended up not making it to state, which was surprising. Um but I did have a you know, time-wise it was a successful season, but not, you know, didn't come home with the medals we were won. Um I guess senior year was where the big kahuna for at least the uh the school record in the 5k, um, which was 1548. So I was pretty happy with that one. Had to steal it from Gavin. So how was that?
SPEAKER_02So, first off, for the audience who's not keeping track, we're talking like almost six minutes from where you started in freshman year down to a big school state record. You're you mentioned the OGs of um Oak Grove team. You basically took it from a teammate who probably hadn't said it maybe while you were on the team or right before you were on the team, was a little older than you. What does that transition feel like going from it's gotta be kind of cool to feel even as a senior? Doesn't that feel that's gotta feel cool?
SPEAKER_03It was it felt like a lot of hard work had you know finally paid off because like basically from starting my junior year until that point when I actually did it, that had been my goal. Because I was like, you know, Ben and Gavin were always the top guys, and I was like, I never really thought I could be that good until I started getting those low 16s, and I was like, wait, I can actually you know be up there with their GOAT status in the Ogre running scene.
SPEAKER_02So what type of culture on the team was Coach Josh creating, and did that contribute to stepping up to shaving some time off to break 16 and ultimately get the score record?
SPEAKER_03I mean, the culture was crazy. I mean, he had us hyped up all the time. It was super fun. Uh most everyone on the team, when we had our our best team, they were all I was the youngest. So Matthew was a year older than me, and then um, you know, Bennett, Gavin, Jaden, Luke, all those wait, Luke was a year older than me, but all those guys were two years older. So at that point, kind of like sophomore and junior year, like the team was dialed. We were like brothers, it was it was crazy. Um, so practice was always super fun, super positive and stuff. That was probably the best time of my running career.
SPEAKER_02I I imagine running a time like that, breaking a school record, you start getting some attention from schools. Where are you at mentally with running, making these big steps? Um, just exploring like, are you in love with it? Do you see yourself continuing on with it into college? Where are you at? Um at that point.
SPEAKER_03So at this point, I'm kind of just like just wanting to push myself as hard as possible, to be honest with you. Junior year I wasn't really thinking about collegiate running or anything. I was just like, I had that school record, you know, that's what I wanted. Um I thought I could have done it that year, but it didn't work out. So junior year, headspace was kind of just focused on that school record, really, kind of just bettering myself. I wasn't really thinking that much about you know trying to run in college and all that. Um it was more so just trying to be the best I could um and train really hard.
SPEAKER_02By the time you made it to your senior year, were you getting attention from schools and were you thinking about making that transition to running in college?
SPEAKER_03Um, I got so going into senior year, I kinda was thinking about it a lot. Um it was I guess early senior year, right before cross-country season, I had, you know, a lot of smaller school offers. And, you know, William Carey, like Bellhaven, all kinds of like of those universities. Um, I don't think anything out of state. Um but yeah. Um and then I was kind of like wanting to run at Southern Miss. Um, I reached out about walking on. I was never really sure if I'd be fast enough for you know running in college at all. So I was kind of just trying to stay open to stuff.
SPEAKER_02So up until this point, were you using cycling at all as a cross-training, or have you ever been on a bike? Okay.
SPEAKER_03So other than like riding around like as a kid, I'd never been on a bike.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's so funny. Well, this is great. So I've got to ask, I guess we're to the point of transitioning. Um, you were coming out, and um, I think the last I thought I talked to you, um, you were undecided on what was gonna happen, but you were crushing things. So, how did this whole cycling pivot take place? Kind of walk me through what you're willing to share about that.
SPEAKER_03Crazy. So, yeah, for sure. Well, okay, let me I should probably start by finishing my uh like second half of my senior year.
SPEAKER_02Please, I'm sorry, I skipped this too far forward.
SPEAKER_03You're good. Uh so I did pretty good in cross country, like it was it was solid. That was probably the best running shape I was in. I honestly should have been faster than 1548, in my opinion, with how my fitness was. Um so we went to that track season. It was kind of just like at that point I was honestly burnt out that whole track season. Um you know, it it kind of led to a lot of like mental struggles and stuff. Um obviously burnout's not an easy thing, and it's really you it's hard for you to know that you're actually burnt out until after the fact when you're like, dang, like my body felt horrible. That's why I wasn't performing. You know, I think there was a lot of overtraining and stuff in there, um looking back on it, but I did end up also being sick for um for track state, um, but still was able to get state runner up in the 3200. So I have I have that going for me. Um so I guess I at this point I had already basically been set to walk on um Southern Mist for running. Um and I was excited, you know, I kinda got new training schedules and stuff after track season. I was doing that. Um in this time I had started working at Jed Spike Shop. Um so you know, just running and working basically all summer. And then it was kind of like in a in a one-week span, I was kinda just like man, like I've kinda lost lost my passion for it. Um and it was kind of just spontaneous. So I was like, well, might as well just run with it. Like not really, but yeah. So I was like, well, I gotta find something to do. Um so I took out an old bike and I was like, hmm, maybe I could just try this. So I went out and like my first ride was 50 miles at 19 miles an hour. Um so I went in the bike shop because I had work after, and I was like, is that good? And Mr. Jed was like, what the heck? He's like, I didn't know I didn't know a runner could do that. Um so that's kind of what started it, and then he kind of realized that I had some potential, and I kind of realized that you know I could have fun doing this. Um so he got me all hooked up with everything. I mean, I can't thank him enough uh for coaching, you know, bikes, nutrition, everything. They've got me covered, so um but yeah, so basically About a month into riding, um, he takes me out on the trace and he's like, Alright, we're gonna find out like how good you really are. Um so I'm like, I have no clue what to expect. I can barely clip in and out of pedals. So I'm like, holy, this is gonna be bad. Um so he hooks up two power meters to my bike. Two. He wants to be sure to get to get the right readings here. Um, and takes me out to do the the five minute test, which is kind of if you're if you're not really into cycling, it's kind of the world standard test of like how good you are. Or how good your power is, I guess. Um so he takes me out, and I'm just like, okay, just drill it for five minutes. Um so after that, he my power for five minutes ended up being 372 watts, which he was like, just try and keep it above 300. And I was like, okay, I'll try. And then yeah, so 372 watts, which at my weight, he was like, dude, that's like mid-level world pro power. And I was like, what does that even mean? And he's like, you can be like a stud if you really want to like try this. And I was like, okay, I mean, I got nothing else to do. So it kind of started from there.
SPEAKER_02That's so cool. I've got so many things to ask you with all of what you just said. I l I really appreciate what you said about the burnout piece. I think that applies in any activity we do physically, and I've seen it apply to myself professionally and even with anything. It's you get to that burnout phase, and once you realize it, it's it's there's a sense of it being too late, and you really kind of have to like step away. Do you have any having been through that experience, do you have any feedback for our audience on ways to know or signs you might be approaching a a burnout?
SPEAKER_03That's that's a tough one, because I feel like I feel like it's one of those things where you can't or it's okay, it's really hard to know in the moment like that you're doing it. Because you can be over-training, but your body still feels good, but you just don't know you're over-training until it kind of builds up. So I would say I mean the the best thing you can do is making sure you're always increasing gradually and not kind of being impulsive like I was, and doing a 30-mile week, an 80-mile a week, a 60-mile week, a 20-mile week, you know. Um consistency I'd say is really key. Um and you know, just making sure you're recovering and stuff. I guarantee you my recovery was not good in high school. Um, definitely wasn't eating enough, all that kind of stuff. Um so looking back on it, it was definitely preventable, but it's easier to say that now than it was in the moment.
SPEAKER_02That's you know, that's a tough one to answer too. I I liked how you answered that. It's it's hard to give someone advice without them having experienced it. But I think like once you experience it once, you're certainly more aware of it. And what you said is so true. It's like I'd say anytime you're trying something new or anytime you're thinking about adding to your volume, do that respectfully, respectfully within the guidelines of coaching or Google it. I think that's great feedback. So this so would you say now we walk into the um the walk up to making the decis the one-week decision, as you say, do you think that burnout, were you in that burnout mentally phase? You know, kind of walk me more in more detail of having the option on the table for running at Southern. How long were you working at Jed's before that light bulb clicked and you went for the 50-mile ride at 19 miles an hour and asked him if that was good?
SPEAKER_03So honestly, like so burnout definitely contributed. That was the main part. Um, you know, my body was kind of just wrecked because we did a lot of training I had never done uh my senior year. So I found out that my body couldn't handle that high of mileage and stuff. Um so going into the summer, body was just wrecked, mentally, you know, wasn't doing great. Um I was kind of just ready for a change. Um so within two weeks of working at Jet's bike shop, this whole thing went down. Um it's pretty crazy. Uh and yeah, he got me, he hooked me up with everything I needed after that.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. What um what kind of feedback did you get from stopping the path towards running? Was that met with others' expectations of what you should or shouldn't do, or or was how was that met with maybe friends, family?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so as far as my family, they like, you know, obviously they wanted to encourage me to do what I love, not like force myself to do anything. But as far as like other people, I actually had a surprising amount of like criticism and stuff, being like, what are you what are you doing? Like you're throwing away this huge opportunity. And to be honest with you, I felt pretty guilty about it for a while. Um you know, because you think people want the best for you sometimes, and like you know what's best for you. But like when people that are pretty close to you start like telling you you're making the wrong decision, you need to do this, like you're gonna regret it, it's pretty scary.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I imagine so, it's especially with the success that you had as a runner at this point with where you're at, and I guess after this awesome five-minute test, um is it fuel? Do you feel like you've made the right decision? Of course, I'll just kind of lay the groundwork there. Anybody that's got an opinion that isn't aligned with what you believe is true, shouldn't really matter. So I'm I'm glad you're kind of like navigated that it sounded a healthy way, right? You're the one that has to live with that decision, and it it maybe it sounds like it's people you thought were in your inner circle or close that you respected, so maybe that's why it kind of shook you a little bit, and that's yeah, that's unfortunate.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, definitely. Um it was a little hard to deal with at first. Um kind of had to realize um that some people I w wasn't as close with that I wasn't as close with as I thought. Um, kind of from that response. But moving forward, it was kind of like I had a chip on my shoulder. So I was like, okay, let's pick up something new and I can be even better at it.
SPEAKER_02Um so I'm glad you said chip on your shoulder, because that was that was my next question. That was my next question. So I said I I made myself a note. I said so with these new functional threshold power results, you probably got this giddy Jed Mad sign test. I found my next up-and-comer, like he's gotta be geeked out. Like, so do you see this new result on this as like validation for the choice you make? And those criticisms are now kind of like fuel. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, with with recent uh success and progression, it's kind of like I know for sure I made the right decision. So I have no regrets.
SPEAKER_02So give me the walk from that test, that power output. Jed probably it sounds like he's wrapped his arms around you before that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Up until I think it was just a week or two ago, I saw like an awesome result. You were sick, awesome two results. Um, kind of give me like the walk up to that point. So are you kind of like locked into like cycling specific training? I see you log in huge miles. I'm like 200 mile weeks audience.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So that that was actually a pretty big gap between the day I did that test and you know, racing. Because cycling, there's a lot more that goes into it than running. Like I could go out there and do that five minute test, not having ever really been on a bike. But when you asked me to handle a bike around a turn going 30 miles an hour with five people around me, then that's a different, you know, it's a different thing. So as much as it is, you know, power and fitness, it's also handling um like race tactics, drafting, all that kind of stuff. So that was more so what I had to learn than like fitness, because like I've I mean, I've known I'm fit. I mean, I knew that I would carry a lot of it over from running, but the hardest part, honestly, is just been getting adapted to kind of going with the flow of a group, being able to handle a bike, you know, just ride correctly, I guess.
SPEAKER_02The audience will have noticed at this point. I meant to say it on the onset, I'm missing my partner in crime and loyal co-host, the Pod Father. He would have so many good questions here. So I'll do my best to ask it up until this point. But so that first weekend, or that last weekend or the week before, it looks like you were in Auburn, Alabama, and you did a what I would say a 40-mile road race and then a crit the next day. And walk help me understand the running analog to crit. I would view the crit as kind of like a roped-off time trial, high speed tactics. Is that kind of it?
SPEAKER_03So not not exactly, because in like a I forget the terminology, but in like a typical like race weekend for cycling, you'll have your road race and your time trial on Saturday. So like an actual time trial, where it's just you versus the clock. And then Sunday is usually the crit race. Um so road races longer, usually hillier, um, all that kind of stuff, time trials just against the clock. And then a crit race is basically like a lap race. So like it may just be a mile kind of course, and you just do 45 minutes to an hour um around that little course. So it's a lot tighter and a lot more technical. Um less to my advantage than a road race or something of that sort. The more hills, the better I'll do.
SPEAKER_02I suppose that was gonna be my next exact question. Like you mentioned, uh 1548, like you said, probably had a higher ceiling than that. That is what it is, it's still real really impressive. I wanted to ask you where you think your most development opportunity and growth comes in. And is it related to handling the bike at those speeds and the technical and tactical part of racing? Let's say a crit.
SPEAKER_03I would honestly say, yeah. Like, that's for me, that's where it all is. Um, not having really ridden like that before, or at all. It's just so much so overwhelming when you first get into it. Like, like my feet are clipped in, I'm strapped to this bike, I'm riding with 10 other people, I have everyone, like I have people on every side of me. I can't bail if something happens. Like, I'm two inches from the person's wheel in front of me. Just like all that kind of stuff to learn was way more, you know, I had to focus on than just like being fit. Because like I knew I had the the engine, I just had to get the the steering down, if you will.
SPEAKER_02I've been I made it known on this. I've I followed a Tour de France for I think this will be my third or fourth year, and I absolutely love the tactics, and I they're all monsters, right? But I just love the tactics of the Peloton on those grand tour races. Were you a fan? I I want to fur fully unpack your relationship with cycling. Were you a fan of cycling before it? And are you just kind of like never- Oh wow, that's even more interesting to me, Grace. So come on, lay it all out to me now. Like, where are you at with it now?
SPEAKER_03I had like I'm I'm like a nerd now, to be honest. Like, I can name most of the the pros and you know, all kind, all kinds of stuff like that. Um, but it's a lot easier once you've like experienced it. Um, you know, you can relate to it a lot more. Um, but before I had no clue. I remember like Matthew and Josh would always be talking about um the Tor and like Pajakar and Vin Gugar. I'm like, who are these people? And now I'm like, holy, like I know who these people are, they're nuts.
SPEAKER_02I I'm gonna have so much fun talking to you now, and I wanted to have more cycling focused guests on, but Anthony and I both do as we approach the summer. Yeah, it is so you're gonna have so much fun following it, especially on this heater of a rise you're on in your journey on it. The tactics still, I'll have a million more questions, and I've watched a bunch of races this year. It's just so fun, and to think I like talking to the Jeds of the world that understand it because I see them, I see what they're climbing, I imagine what it's like, but I'm not a cyclist. So the feedback you'll be able to give me on stuff like this, it's probably gonna be it blows my mind, but it'll probably blow your mind more because you know what it actually means to try to ride something like that for that long.
SPEAKER_03Well, just the fact that like when they say Pojoker's uh like zone two is 320 to 340 watts, like knowing what 320 watts feels like, and then the fact that he's riding that for six hours and like coming back and having a cup of coffee like it was nothing is like insane. That's crazy, like out of this world.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, oh god, golly, that's so wild. So um with cycling, like so you where are you kind of at in your development and what's appealing to you? Because I feel like there's a bunch of options when it comes to running. I mean, heck, there's a bunch of options on running. I I run all kinds of different stuff, but with cycling, I even feel like it's a little more nuanced. I feel like some people like the road, some people are like racing the crits, gravels out there. What appeals to you?
SPEAKER_03Uh so really just like road races and gravel, honestly. I'm not much of like I don't know if you've seen cyclocross, but that it's absolutely ridiculous. It's basically like it's like cross country, but on bikes, it's really tight, it's in mud, there's like stairs and stuff. It's crazy. I don't want anything like that, to be honest with you.
SPEAKER_02Um if Anthony was on, I'd ask him if that's where I came to know Tom Pidcock and Matthew Vanderpool. I think they do say is that right?
SPEAKER_03Vanderpool is the king of Cyclocross.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so that's right.
SPEAKER_03He's the best ever.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um, but yeah, as far as I like the stuff that favors my endurance more rather than like having to be an amazing bike handler. Um, which I want to be one anyways, but um definitely like those longer road races and gravel races. I actually do have a hundred-mile gravel race the next weekend that I'm doing. So less gotta be fun.
SPEAKER_02I think we talked to Zach McCrany about that. Is he part of organizing that or race directing that? Tell our audience what it is and more about it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um, he's with the forget he's Hub City Fellow. He's uh helping to put that on. So it's a good group of people. It should be a really fun race. Um, I'm actually going to ride part of the course tomorrow. So but yeah, it's well it's a well put on event for sure.
SPEAKER_02What is the talk of the town with how does how does the cycling world work? I've gotta imagine you're on some people's radars at this point. They see this guy that was super successful as a runner with these crazy PRs, huge engine, you're young, you're all in, you've got the support of like the best, the most well respected in jet, I feel like around. Do they think did they they did they see you as like and I have and I'm ignorant to this, I'm not in these circles, Anthony would have an idea, but like did they see like what's the sense in the the the local Peloton, if you will?
SPEAKER_03Oh, it was kinda kinda spicy at first. Like everyone was like everyone was like, who who is this guy? And like, kinda, I don't know what the word is, apprehensive. Um so I was always you know, when we're doing these group rides, we're always attacking and doing like kind of race simulation stuff. Um so we'd be doing all that and I'd get smoked on the first few group rides because I'd have no clue how to ride, not aerodynamic, I don't know when to attack, all kinds of stuff. So I'm getting popped. And I'm like, okay, okay. Noted, noted. And then, you know, it just comes with experience. So as I'm starting to like pick up on stuff, watch what everyone else is doing, I'm kinda like, okay, so this makes more sense. Okay, I should do this next time. So recently, probably in the last like month and a half or two months, I've gotten out there and uh let's just say put some hurt on them. And some people haven't taken kindly to it, but I think they've kind of realized now um yeah, what I'm trying to do.
SPEAKER_02I love it. So you're starting to connect the dots, and um, I I I do love the fact that there is a humility to it. You know, you come in with a great fitness level and bass, but there is still you still gotta learn how to piece it together, how to tactically make the attacks. I'm sure that's fun, but I imagine you're on folks' radars now, you're like, uh oh, this kid's about to figure this out.
SPEAKER_03At the point I'm at right now, it feels like fitness is like 40%, and the rest is like just IQ. Like, I feel like you could have a really high VO2 max or something, and like I mean, if you don't know how to ride a bike, you don't know how to ride a bike. Whereas running, like, it's kind of like all fitness. You don't really have to like know how to run, in a sense, I guess.
SPEAKER_02No, that makes really that makes a lot of sense, actually. I've got to ask what it's like to be coached by Jed. Anthony, I got a kick out of having him on the podcast. Anthony knew him knows him a lot longer than I do. Is he as fun as I would imagine it to be coached by? Is he intense? Kind of sounds like a mad scientist a little bit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's it's crazy. And he he's been super excited about all this development and stuff. Um, but yeah, coaching for coaching him, no, him coaching me and also like working for him at the same time is crazy. Like, we're always cutting up and stuff. So, and he was also trained by the best. I I'm sure he said it on his podcast that he was trained by Rick Crawford, um, which you know is a pretty big deal. Um so yeah, he he definitely knows what he's talking about, but he likes to have fun too.
SPEAKER_02So he has such a um almost like a movie style, like he seems straight out of a movie. He just comes across as Rocky's coach Mickey, but he's data driven and he's seasoned, he's been there, done that, got all these stories. I believe most of them. He's probably embellishing some of them, but he's all I don't know. It just and and then the dynamic of working with him at his shot to be you gotta be living your best life right now.
SPEAKER_03It's awesome. Like, I I would not be I don't even know what I would do if I wasn't working there, and that it just all worked out. I mean, the fact that he's coaching me is crazy, and he's really good at what. He does, and I just listen. Like, I don't know what I'm talking about. He puts it on my training peak schedule, and I go do it. That's basically it. I don't I don't question anything, I just go. Um, and then more recently, he started like giving me all the resources I need, like getting me all this um aero suit, skin suit, like crazy shoes. He's like, Yeah, take the $14,000 tarmac out for the group ride. It's like this is this is ridiculous. Like, this is crazy.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh. Have you developed a favorite workout from your several months, I guess, of of training at this point? Do you have any favorites or do you have any that come up on the counter like, uh-oh, this is gonna be a tough day?
SPEAKER_03So I really like like kind of tempo to sweet spot. So we actually just learned this recently. I did a VO2 max test. Um, so they tested me, it was 75, and then they also told me some valuable information about like my heart rate zones, which I had never really figured out before. Um so they were like, I believe what he said was you don't really like I guess my threshold heart rate is pretty high, um like relatively. Um he kind of said, he's like, you're not your body's not burning carbs until your heart rate's over 184, which I kinda always thought of like 180-ish as like a scary kind of heart rate. Um and he was like, You could hold 175, 180 like all day if you're smart and feeling. And I'm like, you know, I had never thought about that before. I always saw like 165, 170, and I'd be like, oh, I need to back it down. Which now after that test, I'm like, I can go out there and rip 175 heart rate for four hours and like make it and not bonk. So it's it's pretty crazy. My my workout I have tomorrow is uh three-hour tempo at like 170 to 175 BPM, so like race prep. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_02Dude, you know that, and that's probably why Jed gets so has so much fun with this. To to him, he's done this for many, many years. Yeah, and it probably to him, he's like, oh my gosh, it's almost low-hanging fruit, data-driven, presenting this to you and unlocking a piece of you that didn't even realize it. When people when coaches are willing to like drill down into your zones, do that functional threshold test, dial in your VO2, you're working with data, and it's that's gotta be a blast. Like, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_03It's awesome. Yeah, I've I'd never I've always wanted to get my VO2 test tested, but I had never really you know known anyone. But I'll tell you, he knows everyone. Like everyone. He was like, Yeah, we can do it. Call like makes two phone calls, and like the next day they're there and ready to test. Like they came to the bike shop to come test this, and they it was just crazy. But yeah. Um, it was a painful test though, I'll tell you that. I don't know. Have you gotten yours tested before?
SPEAKER_02I've not. I've been I'm thinking about treadmill ramp tests, and they're taking you to failure pretty much. Are you on a site bicycle doing this one?
SPEAKER_03Yes, it it sucked. I mean, I was like, holy that mask, like, I'm not a big fan of you know tight stuff on my face when I'm pushing 199 beats per minute.
SPEAKER_04Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03And then you have to keep pushing, so you just can't breathe. It's hard.
SPEAKER_02That's um, yeah, I wish we could talk about it a little more in detail, but they're effectively finding all your zones with the actual data and metrics from your body capturing the gas, so you're getting like the best numbers you've ever had in your entire life. My zone heart rate. That's awesome that you had that. I think a lot of people get that mixed up a lot.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, I always thought like, you know, based on everyone else's heart rate, which is stupid, but I would look at other people's zone two and be like, I need to keep my heart rate like 140. Uh something like that. Which in reality, we did my zone two, and it's like 146 to like 168. So like I can be almost 170 and still in zone two. Which I was like, I don't know why that ever clicked, because I was like, I'm at 170 beats per minute, and this doesn't feel hard. I can still talk, I can still have a conversation, but I always just assumed because it was at that number that I was like gonna die if I, you know, catch it at that.
SPEAKER_02I think a good a good way to put a bowl on that for our audience and listening to is how unique and individual max heart rates and zones are. I see zone two get thrown around on Strava so much, and it just it just kind of makes me cringe because I know it's kind of like popular to talk about, you know, but unless you're really going and getting a VO2 max test or working with the coach like Jed has been around for a while, or there's other ways to estimate it. Our watches aren't even necessarily going to be close. Maybe if you've been running for a while, you'll have an idea, but I I like that feedback that you were running under the wrong assumption for a long time, and your zones were actually a lot higher. I do pee I do think people see it's like false senses of seeing a high number, and they think, oh, I'm in zone whatever, and they're they're sadly mistaken in the wrong direction.
SPEAKER_03For sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, man, you mentioned the hundred miles. You mentioned the hundred miler. I've can't I can't let you get off here with asking you some about how you're fueling um well what maybe we'll look at tomorrow. You've got a sounds like a long tempo effort tomorrow. Um how do you fuel those on the bike and what's your kind of fueling strategy for the 100 miler?
SPEAKER_03See, now that's a great question, because that's that's what I'm still kind of trying to learn. Um fueling is a hard, hard thing um to get dialed in. So Jed's telling me like 50 to 60 grams an hour if I can handle it, like push more, because like I mean, you want more if you can. Um but I've really never done this much of like a hard effort at that kind of heart rate. I have test written the course for the hundred miler, but it was zone two. Whereas, you know, race day, I'm trying to go, I'm trying to hammer this thing basically for five hours straight. Um so yeah, just lots of gels, lots of water, taking the camel back, um, just being really smart and listening to my body.
SPEAKER_02It's so interesting for you having such a high threshold heart rate, and Jed knows this better than probably anybody in the area, too. It's like it it makes the case for you pushing harder and keeping your heart rate harder, and then you can start pushing that carb intake and straight and you know and training your gut to take more carbs. He's probably had those conversations with you because if you're not there and you're trying to take a hundred plus grams of carbs an hour, you're gonna feel you're not gonna be able to keep it down, it's gonna go the other way.
SPEAKER_03With all this newfound information, it's it's crazy. I'm like, it's harder for me to get my heart rate up now. Because like I don't it's difficult. So like tomorrow everyone's riding as a group, and I'm telling them, like, yeah, I got tempo tomorrow, and they're all like, oh because yeah, no one wants to do that. So yeah, it's it's hard for me to I like to do group rides for my Bonker rides because it's more entertaining and stuff, but when I'm doing all this crazy stuff, no one wants to ride with me. So it gets a little lonely sometimes, but we're getting it done.
SPEAKER_02I can't, man. How old are you, Grayson?
SPEAKER_03I'm 18.
SPEAKER_02Eight? Wow, still eighteen. You have such a bright future. It's gonna be so fun to see your progression and really have you back on down the line, maybe in a year or so, and just see where you're going. Because it's all all the stuff we talked about, you're progressing so well, but it's there's so much meat on the bone in areas to improve just from experience that you're just starting to get. So I'm I'm really excited for you, man. Like, I'm really excited for you.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, thank you. Yeah, cycling is what even even more so focused on experience than I uh than I could have imagined. Like, I've been told from several different people, like for you to be a like a top-tier cyclist, like it takes five to seven years of development. And I mean, even at such a young age, like just that having that long, long base and experience is like essential. So I'm like, who knows where I'll be in, you know, three, four, five years? So yeah.
SPEAKER_02Man, and it's awesome that I can't think, you know, getting started at this age, loving it like you do, I can't think of a better support system or like day-to-day setup that you have.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, you know, like can you can you can you imagine is I mean this is an honest question. Is there any any better of a setup or thing that you a wrinkle you would add to where you where you're kind of sitting now with your development? I mean neither, man.
SPEAKER_03It's perfect. I mean, yeah. There's nothing I would change.
SPEAKER_02May I get you know, I'm thinking out loud with you. Maybe you can say if we had some altitude, but even then, like yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. What if? I mean, hopefully I'll be doing some training camp eventually, going to altitude and stuff. Um yeah. Gonna figure something out. But yeah, right now it's it's completely perfect. Um, I got everything I need, so I just gotta put in the miles.
SPEAKER_02So cool, man. Well, beyond the 100 miler on the 11th, um, let's shout that. Is that Rattlesnake Rumble? Is that right? Yes, it is. Rattlesnake Rumble. Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_03Anyone see Rattlesnake make a last-minute sign up?
SPEAKER_02Let's do it. Let's plug it for Zach McCrany. We love Zach McCrany, he's into everything. So um beyond that, what's the what's the future hold? How do you kind of have your short, medium, long-term development racing looking like?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I actually got a pretty decent race schedule here now. Um that's kind of happened in the past few weeks. Um so we got the rattlesnake hundred two weeks after that. We're headed down to Florida for another road race and crit down there. Um after that, headed to Shehaw State Park in Alabama. That's a hundred-mile race with like 11,000 feet of vert. So that's gonna be a good one. And then after that, I believe headed to the tour of North Georgia, so that has a lot of hilly road races, and then possibly going up to Oklahoma for another crit race in June. So, yeah. Wow. We've got all the fun.
SPEAKER_02Follow Grayson Taylor on Strava, folks. This is gonna be a fun ride. I'm glad to have you have had you on at this point, and like I said, I'm excited to stay in touch and follow you, man.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm very what the future holds.
SPEAKER_02I want to thank you for coming on. I really appreciated that message that you share with our audience about the noise and the questioning of the transition. And I think it's really cool how it's like there's always going to be that background noise, and the question is whether you let it define your path or just become the fuel. And you've made it clear it's just the fuel for you. So uh do you wanna you wanna leave any our audience with anything else or you anywhere they they can find you or uh I mean other than Instagram and Strava, I don't is that is that what you're talking about?
SPEAKER_03Plug my yeah, yeah. I I'm gonna try and post some more about my uh my development on there. I'm trying to get some stuff going, you know, trying to speed run basically through the USA cycling categories. I'm trying to get to at least cat three so I can kind of race with you know the elites. Um and hopefully develop more from there. So we'll see where we can take it.
SPEAKER_02I love that. How does the um cycling classification work? Like, do you have to race a certain amount of races or do you have to place in a certain amount of races? Explain that to me.
SPEAKER_03So there's like a a kind of a point system, so it starts cat five, you know, four, three, two, one, one being elite. Um so I race in in cat five this past weekend. Um, that's really just like complete beginners, which I'm trying to get out of it as soon as I can so I can race with some more, you know, people that are equal to my ability. Um cat five, I'm really just trying to get out of there without eating the road right now. A lot of those people really don't know how to ride, so I narrowly avoided a big crash last weekend. So I'm really trying to just hop off the front and get through cat five. I think once I can get to you know four and three, I can start progressing more. But right now it's just building race experience, really.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's awesome. It's shame on those folks right now racing in cat fives, and um, like you said, just try to get out of that category uninjured and unscathed, take that experience. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's so cool, man. Well, I can't wait to follow you on Strava. This is fun. I'm glad we did this interview, brother.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thank you for having me. It was fun. The hour really did go by fast.
SPEAKER_02I told you it was gonna happen, so we'll have you back on. Let's say down the line, Anthony will be back and he'll have some much more intelligent questions with respect to cycling. We'll have gone through the tour at that point. We'll probably do get you want to get your take on the tour too.
SPEAKER_03Oh, for sure. I'd love to do that. I've developed a lot of pro cycling takes. If if you want to watch something good, watch Perry Roubaix next weekend. I don't know if you do that in the planes, but Vanderpool and Tade are going at it. It's gonna be amazing. I'm very excited.
SPEAKER_02I think I I think it requires is that the race that requires a flow bike subscription? That's so funny you said that because I was on my computer last night. Like, how do I watch this race? Requires a flow bike subscription to watch. Oh thank God for saying that. I kept my legacy peacock. Okay, cool. Cool. Awesome. I'm glad you mentioned it.
SPEAKER_03I'm very excited to watch that one.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. Well, cool. Well, thanks for tuning in, everybody. Anthony will be back next week. Um, if you haven't liked or subscribed the podcast, please do that for us and leave us a comment. We went crazy with comments last year. We want to kick that back up. Share it with your friends. Anthony's you're in your right now as we speak, making partners over there. Just kidding. But um, he'll be back next week. So thanks for tuning in, everybody.
SPEAKER_01From back rows to start lines, early mornings, late night, mouths on the pavement, head down, chasing daylight. Mississippi heartbeat sweet mixed with the grind. Pain in the legs, but it's a full in the mind. No lass. No shit. When you split your punishment, if it's been cast in the lower every story, every finish, on the ball and no highest, no fill, no cast.